Международный учебник по СЦБ - Страница 2 - СЦБИСТ - железнодорожный форум, блоги, фотогалерея, социальная сеть

**tiksi** · 04.10.2010, 17:25

EmerCom,
Улыбнуло. Узнаю. Сразу "почём?". Тебе безденежно, от меня лично.
EmerCom, рассказал бы про СЦБ на רכבת ישראל

**Николай Николаевич** · 04.10.2010, 17:51

Форумчанам добрый день!
Книга, о которой идет речь, на английском языке вышла в 2009 году.
А только что вышел её лицензионный перевод на русском языке.
Тираж 4000 экз.
Какова цена - не знаю, мне подарили :-).

**tiksi** · 04.10.2010, 18:15

Цитата:

Сообщение от Николай Николаевич

...мне подарили :-).

Так не честно. Мы тоже хотим. О чём там?

**yuri230382** · 04.10.2010, 19:25

Цитата:

Сообщение от tiksi

Так не честно. Мы тоже хотим. О чём там?

Может, кто отсканирует и выложит сюда?

**Admin** · 04.10.2010, 20:07

Содержание на англ.

Цитата:

Preface .................................................. .................................................. .............15
1 Basic Characteristics of Railway Systems and the
Requirements for Signalling .................................................. ..........................17
1.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. .......17
1.2 Specific of Railway Systems .................................................. ..............................17
1.3 Railway Signalling and Control .................................................. ..........................18
1.3.1 Definitions .................................................. .................................................. ...........18
1.3.2 The Safety-related Railway Theory .................................................. ........................18
1.3.3 Functional Structure .................................................. ..............................................21
2 Safety and Reliability in Signalling Systems ................................................24
2.1 Safety Basics .................................................. .................................................. ....24
2.1.1 What is RAMS(S)? .................................................. ................................................24
2.1.2 Safety/Security .................................................. .................................................. ...24
2.1.3 Availability, Reliability and Maintainability .................................................. ................25
2.1.4 Role of the RAMS Components in the Railway System ...........................................26
2.2 Safety Principles in Railway Operation .................................................. ..............27
2.2.1 Dealing with Errors, Failures and Disturbances (E/F/D) ............................................27
2.2.2 Analysis of Errors, Failures and Disturbances (E/F/D) by System States ..................29
2.3 Conception of Safety and Reliability of Railway Signalling Equipment .............30
2.4 Characteristics of Reliability and Safety .................................................. ............31
2.5 Evaluation of Safety Level of Signalling Equipment ...........................................32
2.6 Rating of Safety Parameters .................................................. ..............................35
2.7 Calculations of the Safety Parameters .................................................. ..............36
2.8 Methodology of Safety Case for Railway Signalling Equipment ........................38
Contents
4
3 Railway Operation Processes .................................................. .......................39
3.1 Historical Background .................................................. ........................................39
3.2 Classification of Tracks, Stations and Signals .................................................. ..42
3.2.1 Main Tracks and Secondary Tracks .................................................. .......................42
3.2.2 The Role of Signals .................................................. ...............................................43
3.2.3 Definitions of Stations and Interlocking Areas .................................................. ........44
3.2.4 Signal Arrangement on Double Track Lines .................................................. ...........47
3.3 Movements with Railway Vehicles .................................................. .....................48
3.3.1 Train Movements .................................................. .................................................. 48
3.3.2 Shunting Movements .................................................. ............................................49
3.4 Principles of Train Separation .................................................. ............................51
3.4.1 Signalled Fixed Block Operation .................................................. ............................52
3.4.2 Cab Signal Operation .................................................. ............................................55
3.4.3 Non Signal-controlled Operation .................................................. ...........................58
3.5 Dispatching Principles .................................................. ........................................58
3.5.1 Decentralised Operation .................................................. .......................................58
3.5.2 Centralised Traffic Control .................................................. .....................................60
4 Interlocking Principles .................................................. ....................................61
4.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........61
4.1.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. ........61
4.1.2 Basic Requirements .................................................. ..............................................61
4.1.3 Basic Principles of Safeguarding a Train’s Path .................................................. .....62
4.2 Element Dependences .................................................. .......................................63
4.2.1 Classification .................................................. .................................................. .......63
4.2.2 Coupled Elements .................................................. ................................................63
4.2.3 Unidirectional Locking .................................................. ...........................................64
4.2.4 Simple Bidirectional Locking .................................................. .................................65
4.2.5 Conditional Bidirectional Locking .................................................. ..........................65
4.3 Routes .................................................. .................................................. ...............66
4.3.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. ........66
4.3.2 Extension of Routes and Related Speed Restrictions ..............................................67
Contents
5
4.3.3 Basic Route Locking Functions .................................................. .............................70
4.3.4 Route Selection by the Signaller .................................................. ............................75
4.3.5 Flank Protection .................................................. .................................................. ..76
4.3.6 Overlaps and Front Protection .................................................. ..............................79
4.3.7 Route Elements in the Start Zone .................................................. ..........................83
4.3.8 Life Cycle of Routes .................................................. ..............................................84
4.3.9 Principles of Route Formation in the Track Layout .................................................. .89
4.3.10 Shunting Routes .................................................. .................................................. .91
4.3.11 Automation of Route Operation .................................................. .............................93
4.4 Block Dependences .................................................. ...........................................94
4.4.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. ........94
4.4.2 Geographical Assignment of Block Sections .................................................. .........96
4.4.3 Classification of Block Systems .................................................. .............................97
4.4.4 Process of Block Working in Token Block Systems .................................................9 9
4.4.5 Process of Block Working in Tokenless Block Systems .........................................100
4.4.6 Locking Functions of Tokenless Block Systems .................................................. ..102
4.4.7 Returning Movements .................................................. .........................................103
4.5 Special Issues .................................................. .................................................. .105
4.5.1 Overlaying Block and Route Interlocking Systems .................................................1 05
4.5.2 Protection of Trains by a Signal at Stop in Rear .................................................. ...106
4.5.3 Several Trains between two Signals .................................................. ....................106
4.5.4 Degraded Mode Operation .................................................. .................................107
5 Detection .................................................. .................................................. .......113
5.1 Requirements and Methods of Detection .................................................. .......113
5.1.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. ......113
5.1.2 Types of Objects .................................................. .................................................1 13
5.1.3 Safety Requirements .................................................. ...........................................113
5.1.4 Detection Purposes .................................................. ............................................114
5.2 Technical Means of Detection .................................................. ..........................116
5.2.1 Classification .................................................. .................................................. .....116
5.2.2 Spot Wheel Detectors .................................................. .........................................116
5.2.3 Linear Wheel and Axle Detectors .................................................. ........................120
5.2.4 Linear and Area Detectors for Vehicles and External Objects .................................121
5.2.5 Three-Dimensional Detection .................................................. ..............................123
5.2.6 Systems with Active Reporting from the Train............................................. ...........124
5.2.7 End of Train (EOT) Detection Systems .................................................. .................127
Contents
6
5.3 Track Circuits .................................................. .................................................. ..128
5.3.1 Basic Structure of Track Circuits .................................................. .........................128
5.3.2 Geometrical Assembly of Track Circuits .................................................. ..............130
5.3.3 Treatment of Traction Return Currents .................................................. .................132
5.3.4 Additional Functions of Track Circuits .................................................. ..................135
5.3.5 Immunity against Foreign Currents .................................................. ......................135
5.3.6 Electrical Parameters and Dimensioning...................................... ..........................136
5.3.7 Application of the Types of Track Circuits .................................................. ............139
5.4 Axle Counters .................................................. .................................................. .143
5.4.1 General Structure and Functioning .................................................. ......................143
5.4.2 The Rail Contact .................................................. .................................................1 45
5.4.3 Treatment of Counting Errors .................................................. ..............................146
5.5 Comparison of Track Circuits and Axle Counters .............................................147
5.5.1 Advantages and Disadvantages .................................................. ..........................147
5.5.2 Application .................................................. .................................................. ........147
6 Movable Track Elements .................................................. ..............................149
6.1 Kinds of Movable Track Elements and their Geometry ....................................149
6.1.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........149
6.1.2 Simple Points .................................................. .................................................. ....149
6.1.3 Other Solutions for Connection of Tracks .................................................. ............152
6.1.4 Arrangements of Several Movable Track Elements ................................................15 3
6.1.5 Derailing Devices .................................................. ................................................15 5
6.2 Safety Requirements at Movable Track Elements ............................................156
6.3 Track Clear Detection at Points and Crossings ................................................15 6
6.4 Point Machines .................................................. .................................................1 57
6.4.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........157
6.4.2 Electric Point Machines .................................................. .......................................159
6.4.3 Supervision of Point Position on the Example of SP-6 ...........................................161
6.5 Point Locking Mechanisms .................................................. ..............................163
6.5.1 External Locking Mechanism: Clamp Lock .................................................. ..........163
6.5.2 Internal Locking Mechanism .................................................. ...............................164
Contents
7
6.5.3 Monitoring of Locking Mechanism .................................................. ......................165
6.5.4 Mechanical Key Lock .................................................. ..........................................167
6.6 Circuitry of Point Operation and Control in Relay Technology .........................167
6.6.1 General Overview .................................................. ................................................16 7
6.6.2 Example with Type N Relays: Russian Five-Wire Point Circuitry .............................168
6.6.3 Example with Type C Relays: GS II DR (Germany) .................................................1 71
7 Signals .................................................. .................................................. ...........179
7.1 Requirements and Basic Classification .................................................. ...........179
7.2 Technical Characteristics of Trackside Signals .................................................1 81
7.2.1 Structure of Light Signals .................................................. ....................................181
7.2.2 Optical Parameters .................................................. .............................................184
7.2.3 Retro-Reflection of Passive Signal Boards .................................................. ...........184
7.2.4 Control and Supervision of Signal Lamps .................................................. ............185
7.3 Principles of Signalling by Light Signals .................................................. .........187
7.3.1 Utilisation of Signal Colours .................................................. .................................187
7.3.2 Stop Aspects .................................................. .................................................. ....188
7.3.3 Signalling of Movement Authorities....................................... .................................188
7.3.4 Signalling of Speed Reductions .................................................. ...........................192
7.3.5 Combination of Main and Distant Signals .................................................. ............195
7.3.6 Shunting Signals .................................................. .................................................1 96
7.4 Redundancy and Degraded Mode Operation .................................................. .197
7.5 Signal System Examples .................................................. ..................................198
7.5.1 German Mechanical and ‘H/V’ Light Signals .................................................. .......198
7.5.2 Belgian Mechanical Signals .................................................. .................................199
7.5.3 British Light Signals........................................... .................................................. ..200
7.5.4 OSŽD Signals .................................................. .................................................. ...201
7.5.5 Modern Dutch Signal System............................................ ....................................202
7.5.6 German System ‘Ks’ .................................................. ...........................................204
7.5.7 Signal System on Japanese Commuter Lines .................................................. .....205
7.5.8 NORAC Signals .................................................. .................................................. 205
Contents
8
8 Train Protection .................................................. ..............................................208
8.1 Requirements, Classification and Conditions for Application ..........................208
8.1.1 General Overview .................................................. ................................................20 8
8.1.2 Cab Signalling Functions .................................................. .....................................208
8.1.3 Supervision Functions .................................................. .........................................209
8.1.4 Intervention Functions .................................................. .........................................211
8.1.5 Role in the Railway Operation Process .................................................. ................212
8.1.6 Automation of Train Operation .................................................. .............................212
8.2 Technical Solutions for Data Transmission .................................................. ......213
8.2.1 Overview over Forms of Transmission .................................................. .................213
8.2.2 Spot Transmission .................................................. ..............................................214
8.2.3 Linear Transmission .................................................. ............................................216
8.3 Particular Systems .................................................. ............................................219
8.3.1 Classification of Systems .................................................. ....................................219
8.3.2 Group 1: Systems with Intermittent Transmission and without Braking Supervision ...219
8.3.3 Group 2: Systems with Intermittent Transmission at Low Data Volume
and with Braking Supervision .................................................. ..............................223
8.3.4 Group 3: Systems with Continuous Transmission of Signal Aspects
by Coded Track Circuits .................................................. ......................................227
8.3.5 Group 4: Systems with Intermittent Transmission at High Data Volume
and Dynamic Speed Supervision .................................................. ........................235
8.3.6 Group 5: Systems with Continuous Transmission at High Data Volume
and Dynamic Speed Supervision .................................................. .......................238
8.4 ETCS .................................................. .................................................. ...............240
8.4.1 History + Motivation .................................................. ............................................240
8.4.2 Application Levels and Technical Components .................................................. ....242
8.4.3 Functional Concepts .................................................. ...........................................245
8.4.4 Operation Modes .................................................. ................................................24 9
8.4.5 Data Structure .................................................. .................................................. ..251
9 Interlocking Machines .................................................. ..................................252
9.1 Classification .................................................. .................................................. ..252
9.2 Mechanical Interlocking .................................................. ...................................253
9.2.1 Historical Development .................................................. .......................................253
9.2.2 System Safety in Mechanical Interlocking .................................................. ............253
Contents
9
9.2.3 Structure of Mechanical Interlocking Systems .................................................. .....254
9.2.4 Example: British Origin Mechanical Interlocking .................................................. ...255
9.2.5 Example: German Type ‘Einheit’ .................................................. ..........................258
9.3 Relay Interlocking .................................................. .............................................263
9.3.1 Historical Development .................................................. .......................................263
9.3.2 System Safety in Relay Interlocking .................................................. .....................263
9.3.3 Design of Relay Interlocking Systems .................................................. ..................267
9.3.4 Example: SGE 1958 (Britain) .................................................. ...............................270
9.3.5 Example: SpDrS60 (Germany) .................................................. ............................271
9.3.6 Example: UBRI (Russia) .................................................. ......................................276
9.4 Electronic Interlocking .................................................. ......................................280
9.4.1 Historical Development .................................................. .......................................280
9.4.2 System Safety in Electronic Interlocking .................................................. ..............281
9.4.3 Structure of Electronic Interlocking Systems........................................... ...............282
9.4.4 SSI (Britain) .................................................. .................................................. .......285
9.4.5 SMILE (Japan) .................................................. .................................................. ..289
9.4.6 Simis and L90 with Derivates (German origin) .................................................. .....291
9.4.7 Ebilock .................................................. .................................................. ..............294
9.4.8 EC-EM (Russia) .................................................. .................................................. .298
9.4.9 ACC (Italy) .................................................. .................................................. .........300
9.4.10 Local-electrical Operated Point Switches (LOPS) .................................................. 302
9.5 Hybrid Technologies .................................................. .........................................303
9.5.1 Hybrid Mechanical and Electrical/Pneumatic/Hydraulic Forms ..............................303
9.5.2 Hybrid Relay and Electronic Forms .................................................. .....................305
10 Line Block Systems .................................................. ......................................306
10.1 Classification .................................................. .................................................. ..306
10.2 Safety Overlays for Staff Responsible Safety Systems ....................................306
10.3 Decentralised Block Systems .................................................. ..........................307
10.3.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........307
10.3.2 Token Block Systems .................................................. ..........................................308
10.3.3 Systems with Singular Unblocking upon Clearing .................................................. 309
10.3.4 Systems with Continuous Unblocking .................................................. .................316
Contents
10
10.4 Centralised Systems for Safety on Open Lines............................................. ....321
10.4.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........321
10.4.2 Centralised Block Systems for Secondary Lines............................................. .......323
10.4.3 Radio Electronic Token Block .................................................. ..............................323
10.4.4 Open Line Controlled from Neighbouring Interlockings ..........................................324
10.4.5 Train Control Systems for High Speed Lines............................................. .............325
10.5 Moving Block Systems .................................................. .....................................326
11 Remote Control and Operation Technology ..............................................328
11.1 Remote Control and Monitoring .................................................. ......................328
11.1.1 Types of Dispatcher Control/Monitoring .................................................. ..............328
11.1.2 Centralisation of Interlocking Control .................................................. ...................330
11.1.3 Flexible Allocation of Control Areas .................................................. .....................330
11.2 Processes in Operation Control .................................................. .......................331
11.2.1 Information Input and its Viewing .................................................. ........................331
11.2.2 Evaluation of Operational Situation .................................................. ......................333
11.2.3 Command Output .................................................. ...............................................334
11.3 Data Transmission in Remote Control Systems ................................................33 5
11.3.1 Types of Communication between CTC and Stations ............................................335
11.3.2 Interface between CTC and Relay Interlockings on the Relay Technology..............336
11.3.3 Interface between CTC and Relay Interlockings on the Electronic Technology .......339
11.4 Operator’s Workload .................................................. .........................................339
11.4.1 Influence of Technology .................................................. .......................................340
11.4.2 Influence of Size of Infrastructure .................................................. ........................340
11.4.3 Influence of Operation Programme .................................................. ......................341
11.4.4 Influence of Moving Vehicles .................................................. ...............................341
11.4.5 Influence of Disturbances .................................................. ....................................342
11.4.6 Results and Conclusions of Calculating Operator’s Workload ................................343
11.5 Examples for Operation Control Systems .................................................. .......343
11.5.1 Centralised Traffic Control in the USA .................................................. ..................343
11.5.2 Operation Control Centres in Germany........................................... .......................346
11.5.3 Operation Control Centres in Russia .................................................. ...................349
Contents
11
12 Safety and Control of Marshalling Yards .................................................. ..351
12.1 Principles of Marshalling of Trains .................................................. ...................351
12.2 Parts of Marshalling Yards and their Function .................................................. 351
12.2.1 General Structure and Functioning .................................................. ......................351
12.2.2 Layout Variants .................................................. .................................................. .352
12.2.3 Automation .................................................. .................................................. .......354
12.3 Control of Marshalling Yards .................................................. ............................355
12.3.1 Introduction .................................................. .................................................. ......355
12.3.2 Retarders .................................................. .................................................. ..........356
12.3.3 Handling Systems for Freight Wagons .................................................. .................360
12.3.4 Points .................................................. .................................................. ...............361
12.3.5 Sensors .................................................. .................................................. ............362
12.3.6 Track Clear Detection .................................................. ..........................................363
12.3.7 Yard Management Systems .................................................. ................................363
13 Level Crossings .................................................. .............................................369
13.1 Requirements and Basic Classification .................................................. ...........369
13.2 Static Roadside Signs .................................................. ......................................370
13.3 Passive Level Crossings .................................................. ...................................371
13.4 Active Level Crossings .................................................. .....................................375
13.4.1 Overview .................................................. .................................................. ...........375
13.4.2 Dynamic Roadside Safeguarding .................................................. ........................376
13.4.3 Opening and Closing of Level Crossings .................................................. .............380
13.4.4 Supervision of Level Crossings .................................................. ............................384
13.4.5 Possibilities of Degraded Mode Operation .................................................. ...........389
13.4.6 Combination with Road Junctions......................................... ................................390
13.5 Removal of Level Crossings .................................................. .............................391
14 Hazard Alert Systems .................................................. ...................................393
14.1 Hazards in Railway Systems .................................................. ............................394
14.1.1 Safety Related Hazards .................................................. .......................................394
14.1.2 Security Related Hazards .................................................. ....................................395
Contents
12
14.2 Solutions for Hazard Detection .................................................. ........................395
14.2.1 Ways of Inspection .................................................. ..............................................396
14.2.2 Fault States to Monitor .................................................. ........................................397
14.2.3 New Approach of Inspection – The Checkpoint Concept ......................................398
14.2.4 Extract of Available Technologies and Products.......................................... ...........399
14.3 Choice of Location .................................................. ...........................................405
14.3.1 Operational Handling .................................................. ..........................................405
14.3.2 Classification of Risky Elements .................................................. ..........................407
14.3.3 Strategies for Infrastructure Manager .................................................. ..................408
References .................................................. .................................................. ......409
Glossary .................................................. .................................................. ..........416
Explanation of Symbols in Track Layout Schemes ...........................................435
The Authors .................................................. .................................................. .....437
Index .................................................. .................................................. ................443

Admin добавил 04.10.2010 в 18:07
по идее еще экземпляры должны быть у Вл.В. Сапожникова и А.Б. Никитина.

**ШНС СЦБ** · 04.10.2010, 20:48

А Швалову, Долгому и Иванченко тоже должны были прислать...

**Углев Дмитрий** · 04.10.2010, 21:37

Николай Николаевич, отсканируйте, а?

**Admin** · 04.10.2010, 21:40

Углев Дмитрий,
наглец, однако

**ШНС СЦБ** · 04.10.2010, 21:52

Николай Николаевич, попросите секретаря отсканировать, или привезите в Ростов 13-15 октября-поможем!

**tiksi** · 04.10.2010, 22:33

Цитата:

Сообщение от ИЛЬЯШОВ АНДРЕЙ

Николай Николаевич, попросите секретаря отсканировать, или привезите в Ростов 13-15 октября-поможем!

Не советую. Ростов всё таки, стырят...

**Николай Николаевич** · 04.10.2010, 22:49

Интересно, а много ли форумчан будет в Ростове на ТрансЖАТе?
Слабо встретиться?

**APCnik** · 05.10.2010, 07:03

Уважаемый Николай Николаевич, Вы же учтите что не все могут принять участие на ТрансЖАТе в Ростове. Тем более, какой постой электромеханик или даже ШЧ сможет туда поехать. Аудитория самая разношёрстная, да ёще не забывайте о ближнем зарубежье. А прочесть такую книгу, я думаю, интересно будет всем.

**tiksi** · 05.10.2010, 08:56

Цитата:

Сообщение от Николай Николаевич

Слабо встретиться?

Мне слабо.

**НиколайМ** · 05.10.2010, 20:08

А я на " Россельмаше" работал когда-то.

**ШНС СЦБ** · 06.10.2010, 00:09

Цитата:

Сообщение от Николай Николаевич

Интересно, а много ли форумчан будет в Ростове на ТрансЖАТе?
Слабо встретиться?

Я буду... Не слабо!

04.10.2010, 17:25	#16 (ссылка)
tiksi ст. Баджал Регистрация: 21.07.2009 Сообщений: 7,810 Поблагодарил: 790 раз(а) Поблагодарили 994 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: 47 фото	EmerCom, Улыбнуло. Узнаю. Сразу "почём?". Тебе безденежно, от меня лично. EmerCom, рассказал бы про СЦБ на רכבת ישראל
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04.10.2010, 17:51	#17 (ссылка)
Николай Николаевич __ Регистрация: 10.09.2010 Адрес: Москва Возраст: 64 Сообщений: 13,931 Поблагодарил: 408 раз(а) Поблагодарили 2364 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: не добавлял Репутация: 1516	Форумчанам добрый день! Книга, о которой идет речь, на английском языке вышла в 2009 году. А только что вышел её лицензионный перевод на русском языке. Тираж 4000 экз. Какова цена - не знаю, мне подарили :-).
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04.10.2010, 20:48	#21 (ссылка)
ШНС СЦБ Super V.I.P. Автор темы Регистрация: 13.09.2009 Сообщений: 3,122 Поблагодарил: 1042 раз(а) Поблагодарили 377 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: не добавлял Репутация: 299	А Швалову, Долгому и Иванченко тоже должны были прислать...
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04.10.2010, 21:37	#22 (ссылка)
Углев Дмитрий Копченый Регистрация: 28.02.2009 Адрес: Екатеринбург Возраст: 42 Сообщений: 3,252 Поблагодарил: 782 раз(а) Поблагодарили 843 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: 49 фото Записей в дневнике: 1 Репутация: 490	Николай Николаевич, отсканируйте, а?
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04.10.2010, 21:40	#23 (ссылка)
Admin Crow indian Регистрация: 21.02.2009 Возраст: 40 Сообщений: 29,975 Поблагодарил: 398 раз(а) Поблагодарили 5986 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: 2576 фото Записей в дневнике: 698 Репутация: 126089	Углев Дмитрий, наглец, однако
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04.10.2010, 21:52	#24 (ссылка)
ШНС СЦБ Super V.I.P. Автор темы Регистрация: 13.09.2009 Сообщений: 3,122 Поблагодарил: 1042 раз(а) Поблагодарили 377 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: не добавлял Репутация: 299	Николай Николаевич, попросите секретаря отсканировать, или привезите в Ростов 13-15 октября-поможем!
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04.10.2010, 22:49	#26 (ссылка)
Николай Николаевич __ Регистрация: 10.09.2010 Адрес: Москва Возраст: 64 Сообщений: 13,931 Поблагодарил: 408 раз(а) Поблагодарили 2364 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: не добавлял Репутация: 1516	Интересно, а много ли форумчан будет в Ростове на ТрансЖАТе? Слабо встретиться?
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05.10.2010, 07:03	#27 (ссылка)
APCnik Super V.I.P. Регистрация: 26.07.2009 Сообщений: 2,635 Поблагодарил: 323 раз(а) Поблагодарили 584 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: 1 фото	Уважаемый Николай Николаевич, Вы же учтите что не все могут принять участие на ТрансЖАТе в Ростове. Тем более, какой постой электромеханик или даже ШЧ сможет туда поехать. Аудитория самая разношёрстная, да ёще не забывайте о ближнем зарубежье. А прочесть такую книгу, я думаю, интересно будет всем. __________________ ДАЙ ВАМ БОГ ТО - ЧЕГО ВЫ ЖЕЛАЕТЕ ДРУГИМ!
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05.10.2010, 20:08	#29 (ссылка)
НиколайМ Super V.I.P. Регистрация: 25.03.2010 Сообщений: 2,468 Поблагодарил: 1349 раз(а) Поблагодарили 1965 раз(а) Фотоальбомы: 118 фото Репутация: 383	А я на " Россельмаше" работал когда-то.
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